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Talk:Chou Super Saiyan
Planterobloon Where are "Ultra Super Saiyan" and "Hyper Super Saiyan" coming from? Just a DB fan trying his best (talk) 21:39, April 4, 2016 (UTC) :Chou can mean either: "super", "ultra", or "hyper" Meshack (talk) 00:58, April 5, 2016 (UTC) Deletion This article was marked for deletion. Let's hear the case for and against deletion of this article. 00:54, April 5, 2016 (UTC) Well, we have no proof that this"Chou Super Saiyan" is a separate form at all. It looks like a normal Super Saiyan and everyone calls it a Super Saiyan. Just a DB fan trying his best (talk) 01:06, April 5, 2016 (UTC) :SSFP is called Super Saiyan Meshack (talk) 01:07, April 5, 2016 (UTC) :I am the one who chose this page for deletion because is pure speculation and theories,Choou,not Chou is an ambiguity on Suupaa wich both means Super in Japanese and shares the same Kanji 超,there is images of Dragon Ball Heroes but none of this cards even mention a Chou Super Saiyan in the Cardass Oficcial Page,is only a translate error of a Episode Title,the power method of obtaining is fake and isnt even mentioned on any official resource this page is a mistake,sorry for mi bad english,my native language is Spanish,born in Venezuela i am an editor in the Spanish Dragon Ball Wiki and this kind of fanon pages is merely often plagiarized in Spanish DBW wich makes confusion on the community 01:24, April 5, 2016 (UTC) 超 always reads as スーパー in Dragon Ball, the guy who typed the summary just forgot he couldn't furigana like this. 02:10, April 5, 2016 (UTC) It does read as "Chou Supa Saiyajin" right. Because if so, then we don't know whether it was a mistake or not, maybe it is or maybe it is not. Also, being insulting is not going to help your argument, it's more likely to get you banned :( .--Neffyarious (talk) 02:37, April 5, 2016 (UTC) Choou,not Chou is an ambiguity on Suupaa wich both means Super in Japanese and shares the same Kanji 超,there is images of Dragon Ball Heroes but none of this cards even mention a Chou Super Saiyan in the Cardass Oficcial Page,is only a translate error of a Episode Title,the power method of obtaining is fake and isnt even mentioned on any official resource,The method of obtaining is also a speculation,Dragon Ball Wiki is the only page with this information and we are not a primary resource,this page is fanon 18:23, April 6, 2016 (UTC) *This form name is not from an episode title, it is from an official episode summary. The method of obtaining is not fake, you can see it from simple observation. Additionally, we are not the only resource that acknowledges or uses this information, I know of at least one other wiki that has a page for this form, and the name of this form was found by the translators from Kanzenshuu.--Neffyarious (talk) 03:10, April 7, 2016 (UTC) *Pure fan made form. Needs to be deleted Nikon23 00:31, April 10, 2016 (UTC) Another thing we could do is add it to the SS1 page as a "Further Power Up" section, or do that to the SSFP page. Kaestal (talk) 03:17, April 10, 2016 (UTC) I'd be all for merging this and SSFP into a "Mastery and further power up" section on the SS page, since both forms are simply the Super Saiyan form with an enhancement.--Neffyarious (talk) 10:48, April 10, 2016 (UTC) :All good solutions. Merging sounds like a winner, especially since we're apparently not 100% sure this is a separate form. 02:15, April 11, 2016 (UTC) :Looks fine to me n_n 03:22, April 11, 2016 (UTC) :Where did the name come from? And no, I can't read Japanese so I can't just look at the image from the reference. Stitchking1 (talk) 03:26, April 11, 2016 (UTC) As I said, this is not a separate form, just like Super Saiyan Full Power, they are both just improvements to the Super Saiyan form. SSFP is just the SS form used without flaws, and CSS is just SS but with the strength of SSG. So merging both SSFP and CSS into a section of the SS article would be good. The name comes from one of the episode summaries, where it says Vegeta turns "Chou Supa Saiyajin" against Magetta.--Neffyarious (talk) 04:24, April 11, 2016 (UTC) I just realized if we did that we would also have to do this for Super Saiyan Grade Two and Three as they too are just augmentations of the initial Supe Saiyan state , might clog up the Super Saiyan 1 page a bit. Kaestal (talk) 08:05, April 11, 2016 (UTC) Neffy, I'm curious if they used the name anytime in the show or manga? Stitchking1 (talk) 10:54, April 11, 2016 (UTC) No, the name was never used on the anime/manga. Also we would not have to merge Grade 2 and Grade 3 into the article, they are referred to as their own transformations in some sources (like video games), we would only have to merge SSFP and CSS into the SS article.--Neffyarious (talk) 11:28, April 11, 2016 (UTC) I don't want to sound like I'm just refuting whatever you say but, aren't those two forms in the same vein as Full Power Frieza? Not so much a transformation but an amplified version of an existing form? But I guess if you really think about it, there isn't much difference between SSFP and Super Saiyan physically except for the facial expressions and lack of aura. And as far as I know, there hasn't been an appearance of a SSFP in any video games. So yeah, they probably should be merged. Stitchking1 (talk) 11:38, April 11, 2016 (UTC) SS G2 and SS G3 aren't really transformations in my mind.. they seem to be more of just crude attempts to make SS2 happen. About them being considered their own transformations... many games consider the Elder Kai's Unlock Ability and Guru's Unlock Potential ability to be outright transformations instead of power ups. But that isn't what we are here to talk about, and TBH I doubt that merging the Chou Super Saiyan with Full Power Super Saiyan would be that bad. But merging FPSS with just SS isn't correct as it has been established that they are different by the Daizenshuu. Dangit I just broke my own thoughts of merging this and FPSS, until it is proven to not be a different form I guess we should just leave it. Kaestal (talk) 11:59, April 11, 2016 (UTC) Honestly, I don't think that either SSFP or CSS should be considered seperate transformations as they are basically substitutes for the orignal form for whoever reached it. For example, Goku and Gohan came out as SSFP in the Cell Saga meaning they really can't go regular SS anymore. A fact the SSFP page even states that Goku( and by that logic Gohan, and possibly Vegeta) used this form for the remaineder of the series. And now that Goku and Vegeta have reached Beyond God status, they technically can't reach Super Saiyan anymore because they'd be Chou Super Saiiyan right? Which is why I consider them variations of the same form. I don't know if their power multipliers have changed, but I'm sure that the SSFP form itself doesn't increase a users power or speed but it does improve efficiency and energy consumption of its original form which is the opposite of just about every other transformation. Stitchking1 (talk) 13:41, April 11, 2016 (UTC) Dear DB/DBZ/DBS/DBGT fans. We need to keep Chou Super Saiyan page active as long as we can. I have a feeling we will benefit from keeping the page as more info about this can come in the near future. Let's not do this just for us but also for the people that wish to know. Thank you. The problem with this page is that none of the information on this article is official its only Rumors and speculation,even the name is a translate mistake 20:52, April 11, 2016 (UTC) I can't read japanese so I have to ask, what does it actually say? Stitchking1 (talk) 22:12, April 11, 2016 (UTC) 超 is the Kanji for Choou wich means super in Japanese,in Dragon Ball it always reads as スーパー (Suupaa) wich also means Super,the guy who typed the summary in Kanzenshuu just forgot he couldn't furigana like this 22:18, April 11, 2016 (UTC) Yeah, I just looked up the purpose of furigana an you're right. That is a bit of a blunder on the production team's part. So, from what I learned, furigana is used in order to provide a sense of understanding for those who don't recognize kanji or pronouncing the words. Basically it's there as a type of visual aid. Right? If that is the case then you're right, this page should be taken down. Stitchking1 (talk) 22:27, April 11, 2016 (UTC) Do we have confirmation that it was an error? No we don't, for all we know they could have meant to but "Chou Super Saiyajin".--Neffyarious (talk) 02:03, April 12, 2016 (UTC) That is true, but if you look around at a lot of text for Dragon ball you'll see that it is common to see "choou" and "suupaa" in a furigana style. And the text in question, from what I've learned, doesn't allow for furigana to be properly inserted which is why it is put in that format. I can't be 100% seeing as how this is new to me, but if you look at various places around the net where furigana is used to spell Super Saiyan the exact same japanese characters are there.Stitchking1 (talk) 10:37, April 12, 2016 (UTC) Two images where the same text is "properly applied". 158-NNEne1.jpg 159-3VqFC1.jpg Stitchking1 (talk) 13:01, April 12, 2016 (UTC) Neffyarious is not confirmed as a error,the matter is that the Name hasn't been confirmed so its not official 17:50, April 12, 2016 (UTC) Should we just merge this with the Saiyan beyond God page under a further powering up part like with Potential Unleashed? Kaestal (talk) 19:05, April 12, 2016 (UTC) The name was used in official material, so it is official. My problem with it being a furinga error is that the name "Chou Super Saiyajin" was found by the people on Kanzenshuu (who are among the best translators for DB material), and not once before this occasion have they had this problem, when the term "Super Saiyan" was mentioned in previous episode titles, they never translated it as "Chou Super Saiyajin" but as "Super Saiyajin". Additionally, Toriyama stated that "fully mastering the base and Super Saiyan forms would lead to increasing the user's level more than Super Saiyan 3" - and we count the full mastery of base as separate from normal, so why should we not keep the full mastery of Super Saiyan separate too? Especially considering it apparently has a greater multiplier than SS2 and SS3, making it quite different from SS and SSFP.--Neffyarious (talk) 07:52, April 13, 2016 (UTC) I don't think anyone here is calling into question the quality of the translation. The issue is that people suspect that the original text is formatted wrong. There is even debate in the Kanzenshuu forums on whether this is a new form or if its a misprint. Furthermore, with the airing of said episode, there hasn't been any mention of the term as printed. If the Chou Super Saiyan name was printed from an interview or text from Toriyama himself I could understand why it could be considered a form on its own. But the text in question was meant to be a brief summary of the episode itself. And no one in the episode, or subsequent episodes, have mentioned the title "Chou Super Saiyan" And I think it is dangerous to make assumptions in regards to the power of any form. It is possible that the multiplier is different, but it is just as possible that the multiplier stays the same. All Super Saiyan forms augment the strength of the user at present. Therefore, since Goku and Vegeta are Beyond God then their normal transformations would be augmented as well. Not because of the multiplier, but because of their power level in their "normal" state. Stitchking1 (talk) 14:51, April 13, 2016 (UTC) *As I've said before, this case is similar to Super Saiyan Full Power, which was only mentioned a single time on Goku's growing up section of one of the Daizenshuus - and was never mentioned elsewhere, in manga/anime just being referred to as "Super Saiyan". Just like what is happening with Chou Super Saiyan now. That's why I think that both SSFP and CSS should either keep their own pages, or be merged into SS. If it happens to one it should happen to the other. Even if you wish to disregard the "Chou Supa Saiyajin" name, this "Super Saiyan beyond God" form is still unique in the same way as Super Saiyan Full Power is - due to being a "fully mastered" version of SS (as said by Toriyama), and is the transformation of a SbG and not a normal Saiyan.--Neffyarious (talk) 09:41, April 14, 2016 (UTC) *I have a problem with the FPSS too as it is not really another transformation as much as it's a variation of a Super Saiyan. If either one was its own form, then someone would be able to change in-between them. But they can't, as prior to this whenever Goku transforms to a Super Saiyan he is technically going Super Saiyan Full Power. And with the Battle of the Gods when Goku lost his SSG form and went Super Saiyan afterwards. It was still Super Saiyan, but from a higher base level. And as there were never any multipliers given to the FPSS form it can assumed that its power is not inherently greater than a normal Super Saiyan. In fact, there isn't any text that supports a FPSS being a completely different form, just a variation. Meaning FPSSJ=SSJ without the ridiculous strain and abundant energy consumption. And as for the Beyond God Super Saiyan form, of course it is going to be greater, because they are at a much higher level in their base forms. And training their base forms(currently Beyond God) is definitely going to be more beneficial because its basic math. Your Super Saiyan form is going to be much stronger if you raise your base power level. Stitchking1 (talk) 10:16, April 14, 2016 (UTC) **So we're both in agreement that SSFP and CSS would be better off merged into a "Mastery and further power up" section on the SS page?--Neffyarious (talk) 10:45, April 14, 2016 (UTC) **Yes we are. As long as there are no other dissenters then yes it should be merged. Stitchking1 (talk) 10:52, April 14, 2016 (UTC) Deletion: The Sequel How long does it take for an article marked for deletion to actually be deleted? Stitchking1 (talk) 02:31, April 18, 2016 (UTC) In this wiki i don't know, but this kind of stuff takes time 03:08, April 18, 2016 (UTC) *Since the merge is agreed upon at the moment, it's a week from the time that it was agreed that that was the right course of action, and if nobody disagrees during that time then we can merge. So there are still three days.--Neffyarious (talk) 03:42, April 18, 2016 (UTC)